Microbiome Mechanics – Jonathan Hull, Head of Business Development at Thryve – Weight Loss, Probiotics, Microbiome Testing, and GI Health

Richard Jacobs: Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Future tech and Future tech health podcast. I have Jonathan Hull, he’s head of business development at Thryve Inside, thryveinside.com. They make a probiotics that I’ve tried myself and they refrigerated and they come to you and they’re a bit customized and everything. So I spoke to them before. I want to have them back. So Jonathan, thanks for coming.

Jonathan Hull: Thank you Rich.

Richard Jacobs: Tell me about the whole concept of Thryve? What got the company started and going?

Jonathan Hull: Yeah, absolutely. So Thryve originally started off as a microbiome testing company and as you mentioned the company has since evolved to do a pairing between probiotics and those tests. And so typically there’s two phases to the journey with Thryve. The first is participants will usually seek out the company and do a microbiome tests. After we get the test results back and generate a report. There is an offering of probiotics that can be chosen depending on the preference of the study participant of the customer.

Richard Jacobs: Okay. So tell me how does a typical customer find you? What’s going on with them?

Jonathan Hull: There’s a range of reasons that people seek out Thryve or stumble upon us. The primary reason that we’ve encountered, and this is just sort of been in line with the evolution of the company, is that typically the sort of the most frequently sought out reason is that there’s some GI or some sort of digestive distress and usually through an online journey folks will seek out probiotics. And more and more, I think that customers are realizing the importance of understanding, what a healthy, normal GI tract looks like. And so the pairing between a microbiome test and probiotics is a natural one that it’s a leap they’ve begun to make themselves.

Richard Jacobs: Okay. when you said gastrointestinal distress, like other specific conditions, I know you can’t promise to cure them, but are there specific conditions people come to you and say, Oh, I have IBD, I have crones or just oh my stomach hurts whenever I eat? Like what are they telling you that they need help with?

Jonathan Hull: Yeah, so again, I’m not a medical professional. Certainly if there’s any of those conditions that were just mentioned, we recommend seeking out the advice of your doctor. But I would say broadly categorize it is that people recognize that there’s something wrong inside of them. In fact, this is how the company was founded, was it that Richard himself had some serious GI distress and ended up in the hospital for a period of days and that was sort of the birth of the company is recognizing that there’s the feeling of something wrong inside and hence the name Thryve Inside.

Richard Jacobs: Okay. So what do you mean the process? They come to you, they say, you know, something’s wrong with my stomach. Do you go through this assessment process with them? Like what happens?

Jonathan Hull: Right. So again, consumers that have access to a website typically grow to be prompted by a series of questions and they follow a journey. We typically don’t interact directly with them in a face to face manner. Businesses is driven by online businesses. So depending on the reason that the website is accessed it can be a range of concerns. Sometimes people are concerned about the connection with their weight or with their mood, et cetera. So there can be a variety of reasons that people would want to seek out the microbiome testing. And then from there they are sort of navigate their own journey, so to speak.

Richard Jacobs: Yeah. Well, when I did it, you know, the first thing is you guys sent me a kit and they sent you the sample. Analyzed it and then you came back with a recommendation. And what I did is, before I even got the recommendation, I got your I guess, I don’t know how many different generic ones there are, but I got one generic started taking that and I did feel better. It seemed to, I don’t know, I guess I felt like I digested faster and I just went to the bathroom more easily. And then I got personalized one and yeah, I just found that the generic actually in a weird way was better for me and the personalized one, but I started just taking both, but the process was, again, sent you the circle, got that stuff back and they started getting it regularly.

So yeah, that’s what I experienced.

Jonathan Hull: I think people are surprised by the kits. Certainly those who don’t know about microbiome testing, it certainly makes for a fun conversation. But certainly the notion of sampling your own stool and sending it back and based on that being presented with a number of options is both interesting and I’m glad to hear that you experienced some benefits as well.

Richard Jacobs: Yeah. I haven’t sent you another sample, but how often is it recommended that people would send in another sample to see how things have changed and if they get a different personal mix?

Jonathan Hull: That’s a great question and we’re entering into a range of research projects right now. What’s extremely fascinating about the microbiome is that it turns over so quickly. So within a period of couple of days actually whether you change your diet or there’s even been some studies more recently about changing your exercise protocol. Certainly changing your environment, visiting a new country, and changing your food at all can the biota within your GI tract can change very quickly. And so we wouldn’t necessarily recommend the sampling every four days or so, but one certainly could expect to see changes in that timeframe. In terms of normal use cases, I think that every six months or once per year is sort of a good time to revisit and check in with the latest evolution in the products.

Richard Jacobs: Okay. And what have you guys learned? I’m sure you’ve seen like thousands and thousands of samples, but with that data how is that going to inform you guys to do new products and change what you’re doing?

Jonathan Hull: Yeah, so what’s interesting about this business is that we wouldn’t believe the amount of inbound and just we get from a range of more recent academics, but also just companies that are interested in doing research in this space. And so obviously there’s a variety of product pairings that we could do sort of in the same avenue of GI distress or mood.

But one of the more recent trends we’ve seen is just an interest in using our product or services as a research tool. And so out of that we’re actually beginning to move into some research offerings as well. So what continues to fascinate me about this field is obviously it’s still early on. And just the range of opportunities for this company I think is quite broad. So we look forward to both the academic and industrial partnerships that we’re beginning to pursue. And certainly over time you can expect to see some new things from us.

Richard Jacobs: Yeah, no, you can say some stuff, other stuff, you know, it’s proprietary or not ready, but what can you say about some of the big initiatives that you guys are working on? Where do you want to make an impact?

Jonathan Hull: Well, certainly, so we’re focusing on consumer space for now. And what I can say is that probiotics are one. But there’s a variety of other microbiome spans, you know, oral health and skin. And there has been interest that we’ve received in expanding into potential other areas of the body as well. So, that’s pure, you know, looking at pure product offerings as in the model that we have now of pairing the testing with a consumer-like product. But in the future we may end up just offering services as well. Just pure testing services.

Richard Jacobs: Yeah. I guess oral, there’s not that delay of having digested whatever you eat and to see what the microbes are doing, but maybe it will be as revealing as fecal samples. Certainly, it’d be a lot easier to provide them on-demand versus fecal samples and for some people that achy. But so I guess the world’s a big play and for women, their feminine health, vaginal microbiomes, skin, I guess there’s tons of areas you go into.

Jonathan Hull: Absolutely. And going back to your previous point about, well, I think its 80 or so percent of your immune system is located within your intestinal tract. And so regardless that there’s the reason that there was so much testing going on there and I think that a lot of sort of the evidence-based stuff will continue to come out of that area. But just in terms of breadth of the art of what’s possible in the future and what people are beginning to talk about the sort of the news that we’re hearing if you have your ear to the ground so to speak.

Richard Jacobs: Any new studies or papers that have come out that are changing the direction of what you guys are doing? Were there any clinical trials in play that you’re keeping your eye on that may be revealing?

Jonathan Hull: You know I wouldn’t say any in particular. Certainly there are some themes that we’ve seen that are coming out a lot more, I just mentioned one in exercise and for instance there was a study I can send you the link to this, but there was a study not too long ago showing the difference in response between obese individuals as well as healthy individuals who undertook exercise regimes and had different responses to just their microbiome just by virtue of their BMI was responded differently to exercise regime. So there’s all types of nuances that are there that are coming out. So I would say that really in the health and fitness industry is an area. And the other area that I think is quite interesting to look at is just there are projects like the American gut Institute that are ongoing and certainly there their findings and methodologies and publications are always something come into washboard. That’s a really great group that’s cause making some good progress on the research front as well.

Richard Jacobs: Okay. Well, very good. Any comments you hear from people that they’re worried about when providing the sample or when taking the probiotics. Are people afraid of anything or they’re like, yeah, let’s try it.

Jonathan Hull: That’s a good question. I think maybe five years ago people would have been a little bit more scared, but I think that now that companies like 23 and me or personal, the sort of consumer-based medic testing has become available. And I think just because of the advances with the medicine I think it’s an old joke at this point with the FMT, the fecel transports, which are showing that they’re actually quite efficacious in certain disease areas. I think that just because of that news and awareness and behavior that people don’t really bat an eye once they hear about services like ours or products like ours. I think that the main issue quite honestly is just awareness that such an item exists. And whether or not they can afford it. So that’s another area that we’re making great progress is the affordability of our posting compared to some of the others that are out there.

Richard Jacobs: Yeah. I’ve also noticed it takes six weeks to get a result. It takes a long time. Is there a reason why it takes so long for some companies? And can you guys shorten that time lag?

Jonathan Hull: Just to be frank. So this industry in general, and I would say a lot of these testing services are heavily tied to the tools that are used, the sequences, and the sample preparation that actually goes into a game of the chemical analysis and data processing of the sample. And so I would say over time, certainly as volumes increase both prices and time to result will lower prices and shorter times results. So the time does vary. And I agree it can be long sometimes, but sometimes it’s just a matter of whether you hit a good week or a bad week in terms of the PR, the volume of samples that are being processed by the lab at any given time. So certainly that’s an area that we expect to see improve over time.

Richard Jacobs: Any other breakthroughs that you can talk about that you’re excited to see whether you think they’re coming in the next couple of years?

Jonathan Hull: Yeah, I mean, what really strikes me, what I really like about Thryve and this space is that ten years ago DNA testing or the types of consumer-based DNA testing that you’re seeing now were virtually nonexistent. Websites, if you had one, didn’t do much. Companies that were delivering products, the mail order didn’t exist. And so when I look at and certainly doing, I would say doing clinical trials or doing research projects via mail order, so to speak were few and far between.

Just the advances in the supply sooner it takes just in technology in general I think we’re really beginning to see a lot of opportunities in particular in the research space. So we wanted to go, you asked about upcoming research studies and what I expect to see there’s a lot more. There are some regulatory changes that are going on, having to do with allowing real-world evidence to be counted as evidence is for progressions and clinical trials. And I just think that there’s so much opportunity that will come out as these forces come together and the research communities begin really dig into some of the findings that were only beginning, just now to uncover.

Richard Jacobs: Well, very good. Are you guys involved in any clinical trials that you can say?

Jonathan Hull: I can’t speak openly about that, but what I can say is that it’s certainly an area that we’re interested in and it is within our roadmap.

Richard Jacobs: Okay. Excellent. So what’s the best way for people to find out more about Thryve?

Jonathan Hull: Yeah. Certainly the main information is thryveinside.com and we’ve had a couple of conference appearances and certainly anyone’s welcome to reach out with questions. It’s just continues to fascinate officers, just the amount of people that do reach out and we love hearing from folks and happy to both answer questions and talk about small projects that the individuals want to have or small companies, et cetera. So it’s really exciting. So they can shoot us an email and we’d be happy to chat.

Richard Jacobs: Okay, excellent. Well, Jonathan, thank you for coming. I really appreciate it.

Jonathan Hull: Thank you, Richard. Congratulations on a wonderful podcast.

Richard Jacobs: Yeah. Excellent. Thank you.